Surprised my advice hasn't been more controversial. Last time I gave it a lot of people on Twitter argued that playing an ineffective character was a valid roleplay choice. #rpgchat
@Canageek I wouldn't say an ineffective character is a wise choice in a typical trad game but possible when you have the right group or even a system that embraces that kind of character and helps them grow. Can't think of a system that does that but it's plausible.
@WardenRPG but even if it does allow you to grow your still a burden on the rest of the party until you've done so.
@Canageek When we ran a campaign of Nefertiti Overdrive, there was a princess in our group that was originally very useless in combat (and it's a combat heavy game) but we were bound to protect her. As time progress, she was able to use her social status and her belief she was a god to all our advantage. It fit with the story and while it was tricky at first, the final reward was worth it. She won our respect.
@WardenRPG then she should have been given by the system social skills to compensate for the lack of combat skills
@Canageek She did, but this was a very combat heavy game and an approach the player wanted to try out with full participation from the group. We get a kick from "fish out of water" characters. As a group, it became a side quest to show her how the world really worked before she found a way to kick ass with us.
@WardenRPG @Canageek The Burning Wheel, maybe? That definitely feels like a game where following the thread of your explosive failures could be more interesting than succeeding.
@WardenRPG @Bad_Quail I mean what I just do is run it in gurps and the princess would have all sorts of Social and positional abilities that the rest of the party wouldn't have.
for example I'm not sure either of my current groups bard or Apothecary have ever done anything useful in combat. but The Bard opens a lot of doors with her music that would otherwise not be available and the Apothecary has done a lot of useful scientific and healing work.
@Canageek I feel like it's a weakness in the game if it's easy to make a character who is especially more or less effective than another. Ideally, a system should lend itself to making characters who are differently effective from one another.
@Bad_Quail I mean that would be the ideal but I don't think any game that isn't so trivial as to be boring like say Fate has ever pulled it off. fate drives me crazy cuz you can't actually make a proper three dimensional character you just make a sketch of a character in it, so I suppose if you had a game like that it might be easier?
@Canageek There are definitely things like The White Hack where none of the options seem especially better than the others, but the different character types definitely feel different enough.
Fate's an interesting example of a game where you should wind up with a narratively complex or connected character that is rather flat mechanically (without adding in some extra bells and whistles).
@Bad_Quail I disagree since you only get like four attributes to define the character. in gurps I typically have skills related to my early life to my college education to my current profession and to my hobbies would you just can't do in something like fate.
isn't white hack a retro clone? I'm skeptical of the game balance in red Retro clones because they're based off early D&D where you'll notice all the characters who got famous were high-level Wizards
@Canageek What little I've seen of the White Hack, it's pretty radically different from ODnD/Basic DnD based games. It's d20 based, but it almost feels like it has more in common with d% systems (I may just feel that way because it's a no-mods, roll-under stat system). The spellcastery character type (the Wise Hero) doesn't seem especially better than the Strong Hero or the Deft Hero. The entire thing is 64 pages, so it's pretty lightweight.
@Bad_Quail Actually, I'm wrong. One of my ALL TIME FAVOURITE GAMES does this very well. Durrr.
Call of Cthulhu. Very hard to make a useless character, one of the reasons I love it.
A) VERY flat power curve. Characters don't typically get more powerful after character creation, they get more well rounded.
B) d% means it isn't that hard to fill a niche.
@Bad_Quail Durrr. How did I forget that one, considering I'm writing an RPG using similar mechanics in an attempt to preserve the lack of system mastery needed.
Don't toot before you wake up, Canageek. Durrr.
@Canageek "Valid roleplay choice" is often code for "being a dick", in my experience. My job as a GM isn't to support your "valid roleplay choice"; it's to make sure we all have a good time.