Recent searches
Search options
More and more artists are speaking out about the very real harm AI art is doing to them. And I'm seeing more art students considering a change in careers. Deeply saddened.
The bottom line for me. More and more artists are coming out and saying, "Look this is really hurting us. Please stop." How callous do you have to be to look at them and say "I don't really care"?
@LouAnders Well, portrait painters got really hurt by photography. Telegraph operators got really hurt by telephones. Musicians got really hurt by record players. Caligraphers got really hurt by the printing press.
Of course it sucks for everyone working in an industry with a shrinking job market as their craft turns into a luxury good. But what's the practical appeal here? Outlaw all machines that can make products cheaper?
@Yora The difference here is that the photographer is taking a picture of a portrait and passing it along with no compensation to the painter.
@LouAnders it's a complex issue that has devolved into bickering between two sides who don't care about finding a middle ground and are defending their side even if what they want will harm them even more. You're either against it or part of it. You're either a thief or a good person. You know, the sort of division those in power love because it prevents people from focusing on what really needs to be addressed about the issue.
@victorjhurtado artists are asking us not to use it. That's enough for me to pause, cease to use it or post it, while issues with it are addressed. But "let me continue to harm you while I wait for someone to step in and address the harm you are suffering" isn't really a stance I'm comfortable with.
@LouAnders @victorjhurtado Based on the public discussion about this, I changed my position. Now I'm only going to use AI when it's trained on public domain imagery or on my own artwork, and still only going to use it for prototyping, not finished work.
Further, I'm still hiring artists for the majority of Silver Gryphon Games' published works. I will not use AI-produced artwork for any SGG products.
@dungeonHack @LouAnders that's an excellent stance to take. Do you know of any websites solely trained on public domain art? I'm not that good with painting faces and that's an option I'd like to investigate.
@victorjhurtado @LouAnders No. I use Stable Diffusion which uses my local GPU, and Dreambooth for training models (also local). It's not as user-friendly as using one of the websites, as it requires some technical knowledge.
As for getting better at painting faces.... well, there's only one way to do that, and that's practice, I'm afraid!
@LouAnders I completely agree with your statement . Anyone using AI tools that's harming artists should pause until it's all addressed. Where it gets tricky is in those gray areas where you have artists who have integrated the tool into their workflow that falls under Fair Use or that have trained an AI using their own art. What do we do with those people? Do we lump them together with the rest of users? Do we change that laws so people can copyright art styles and techniques? It's complicated.
@LouAnders @victorjhurtado That’s what I’ve been thinking about. Clearly AI can be used for art which uses other material in a transformative way, and clearly it can also be used as a lazy way to rip off someone else’s work wholesale. It’s like sampling in that respect. I suspect that like with sampling, we’re going to see a decade or two of complex lawsuits before the dividing line gets sketched out.
@victorjhurtado @LouAnders If you train an AI on your own work to use as part of your process, there is no issue. If you're using neuralnets to reach further, that's great!
The issue comes with reusing AIs trained using exploitative techniques, and worse carrying on the mindset.
@LouAnders @victorjhurtado I have really, really mixed feelings about this. I’m not a visual artist, but I am a #writer, so a professional creative.
1/2 OTOH, I’m sure when the skilled workers who used moveable type were giving way to machines, they said, please don’t use these machines, they’re hurting me. And then when the linotypists were being eased out as the next wave of technology started…
@LouAnders @victorjhurtado
2/2 placing type on the page, they said the same thing. When the first automatic looms took over from the hand weavers. . . you get the idea.
OTOH, the thought of a machine creating art and taking work away from actual people with skills and (hopefully) talent is very unsettling. Is it progress? Is it in the nature of the human condition? I don’t know.
@susanna @LouAnders @victorjhurtado
I have just had my first try with #ChatGPT and have to say it is stunning. I gave it a software problem and it produced the working source code in seconds. Then I tried some #writing stuff and was equally depressed.
This old saying is apt:
The stone age didn't come to an end because we ran out of stone.
I just asked ChatGPT:
Will A.I. help writers to create better fiction?
The answer is surprising. Try it.
@LouAnders I agree what's being done to artists is horrible. There is on top of that something that scares me even more. Why aren't the big art players pitching in? I'm talking about the disneys and such. The big IP holders. There's bound to be a lot of their stuff that's been used for training the "AIs". All the answers I can think to that horrify me.
@LouAnders I am considerably better off than a lot of freelance illustrators, but because of AI & people’s attitudes lately, I’m fighting the urge to go check out if MAiD can work as contingency plan :(
@LouAnders my main criticism is in the training sets. They shouldn’t be able to use art in training sets without permission from the artist. At this point there’s no visibility into how they train these things, and I suspect the web is just being scraped with no regard towards getting permission.
@LouAnders
Looking at the companies and their 'added shareholder value'... I think very.
@LouAnders As I stated yesterday these AIs coming out now are built upon clear capitalist exploitation. AI currently takes massive effort to train, and is of more interest to capitalists than independants.
https://floss.social/@alcinnz/109486538867139971
With the way I regard my own work, I'd say even if your use isn't directly exploiting anyone, that exploitation is still a part of your work.
@LouAnders I think we currently have an ineffective understanding of what stepping on novice creation / flooding it out with generated content will do. The very data these models need to work are going to get poisoned by them.
@LouAnders Part of me can’t help wondering if this is how portraiture artists felt at the dawn on photography.
@bittner in that case a lot of them lost their jobs to a new technology, but the technology didn’t come into the studio and steal their actual painted portrait, photograph it, and profit off the photo of their actual work
Maybe the idea that you need a "career" to live should be questioned? Else we will have a bad time really soon.