One of the things making it hard to suspend disbelief and feel like the Marvel "universe" is real is how they handled The Snap and people coming back after The Snap.
The disappearance of a randomly selected 50% of the population would be a catastrophe on a gigantic scale.
Then having that 50% suddenly reappear, unaware that any time has passed, and presumably believing they own houses and other things that have since been claimed/redistributed, AND there's a sudden need to again feed four billion more people. Like, can you imagine the run on the grocery store when your town's population doubles on size instantaneously?
I'm not actually interested in exploring that as story material, so I'm not saying I would have liked it to be a main focus, but if the producers decided to make that event happen, then the movies and shows that take place after that event need to *feel* like that event has taken place.
If that's not the type of story or tone they wanted, they should have chosen a different plot.
It's frustrating & obnoxious to be asked to believe in and care about a world in which there are clearly no stakes.
So you're telling me the Snap happened and then five years later it was reversed and that neither of those events had *any* significant impact on the geopolitical situation or economic relations?
Uhhhh...
I feel like the people responsible for the "creative" direction of this "cinematic universe" are utterly *addicted* to the status quo and are staunchly opposed to even imagining the world differently.
The greatest catastrophe that has ever befallen humanity happens and things just mostly go back to exactly how they were before? They're refusing to imagine the world with different power structures and different social behaviors.
I really checked out of the MCU after Endgame. It just stopped feeling interesting, and it certainly stopped feeling like these stories could possibly actually be meaningfully interconnected.
I don't understand why they decided to go with the Snap storyline if they were planning to continue on with the MCU indefinitely.
It would have worked okay, I think, had Endgame actually been the end, but since it wasn't, they created a really weird situation.
ANNNND ANOTHER THING...
...no, but for real, I wish Marvel would have been more willing to commit to the weird and fantastical from the get-go. They often avoided certain comic book elements because they didn't want to be too goofy. That puts them in a position where it's more difficult to hand-wave things.
It doesn't *have* to feel like the real world. I don't even really think it *should* feel like the real world. It wasn't *me* that decided to try to "take things seriously".
If things are strange and fantastical and out-there, that's great! I love that shit.
If the studio seems embarrassed about that shit and tells me that theirs is a more grounded version, then they should damn well make it grounded.
Or don't. Really don't. Just own that shit.
@artemis they did try to address it for a while after Endgame.
@Tim_Eagon
It felt like it was waaaaay too small scale though. Like, I think we could expect massive civil unrest, the collapse of governments, mass starvation, etc. After the Snap, Earth in the MCU should be a *completely* different place than the Earth we know today.
@Tim_Eagon @artemis it's a primary theme of Falcon for example
@bedirthan @Tim_Eagon
I have to admit to not watching that show, but I think that's really the problem. You can't just make it a theme in a couple places and then basically ignore it otherwise.
It gets mentioned a few times here or there, but for the most part, all of the existing power structures at least in Europe and North America seem not really to have changed at all.
@bedirthan @Tim_Eagon
And to be clear, I don't really *want* all this shit to be covered...I don't necessarily think that Marvel has much that would be interesting to do with it.
It's just frustrating as a viewer if I'm being asked to more or less take this series of events seriously and to believe that this is a cohesive whole where the events that happen in each individual story are supposed to have an impact on the shared world.
@artemis @bedirthan TBF, the Snap/Blip would be the most important event in human history; by rights, it should dominate everything afterwards, which would conflict w/ any other stories that Marvel wanted to tell. I think they should've explored it more, but it's aftermath was examined in TFatWS, WandaVision, No Way Home, Hawkeye, Shang-Chi, The Eternals, and Doctor Strange 2. Who knows when they'll return to it; it looks like Brave New World is finally going to address events from The Eternals.
@artemis This gets me about superhero comic settings in general: settings go through events far more disruptive and traumatic than COVID and there’s no long-term impact to most individuals (even ordinary people), let alone to society. I can’t help but be aware that I’m not reading a story about animals let alone humans, but about automatons - there’s nothing in these settings that feel like people for me to relate to.
@artemis
Hey, the snap itself was phony. Have you ever tried to snap your fingers inside a metal glove?
@artemis Broadly I’m with you. I don’t like Marvel movies as a rule. But I actually think they did a very good job of moving from the early 00s “superheroes should be realistic” zeitgeist (which itself I think was mostly recovering from embarrassment around Batman & Robin and similar) into a more bright, cartoonish style.
@Dataless
True, when you consider that the Nolan Batman movies were all the rage at the time, comparatively that WAS a step in the right direction for comic book movies.
@artemis Yeah, but it was the case with X-Men (“What would you prefer, yellow spandex?”) and other franchises as well.
I think the Avengers can’t exist in a realistic world, but there was no way they’d have been able to sell a heightened, goofy comic book reality when they made Iron Man, so they went realistic(ish). Then turned up the dial movie by movie until the Avengers seemed plausible.
@artemis I agree! Pop culture detective did a good episode on exactly this point. https://youtu.be/LpitmEnaYeU?si=whRf58R36gXmi3k7
@artemis A valid point, but one quibble, the plot of the Captain America TV series did have a major plot element was unrest over trying to send all people who immigrated during the Snap back.
@cptbutton
Tbh, I think I'm asking for a level of creative direction and unity which just does not and will never exist in a franchise like this.
I don't know if you've seen the show The Franchise, but I get the feeling that despite the absurdity (or rather, because of it), it is a fairly accurate representation of how movies in a franchise like Marvel get made, and it's an absolute mess.
So it makes sense that some properties would treat it seriously & others basically ignore it, because no one is really driving this thing, at least not in a comprehensible direction. The people with the final say in "creative" decision don't think about anything other than "how do we make more money?"
A frustrating thing about the dominance of "cinematic universes" is that the big-picture problems affect the quality of work of real people who just want to make good movies & shows.