I've got some B/X-inspired rules for Star Wars lying around (currently I call them Deathstars and Droids), and I've been thinking of running a few games in them soon.
One of the things I have been thinking about was to redo The Keep on the Borderlands as The Bastion on the Outer Rim, and have them explore The Hidden Fortress of Quasqueton in a scenario, a treasure hunt where they have to find an old jedi macguffin before the imperial governor/sith inquisitor does the same.
why Keep on the Borderlands?
Well, because it's easy to mod. I just take the Keep and name everything in a Star Wars way, then run it basically the same. Except the Keep is where the bad guys are, while the Caves of Chaos are now the local rebel camp.
hmm, if I go that way of switching roles then the local priest in the keep now is the sith inquisitor, while the jovial priest is a local rebel contact.
not sure what to do about the cult in the caves though.
controversial opinion time: I think Keep on the Borderlands is the best thing Gary Gygax ever did.
(this is gonna piss off the people who don't like his disgusting politics and those who think ADnD is holy writ at the same time)
@kyonshi have you read the return to keep on the borderlands scenario? I think because some things in it are referred to historically you might find the cult in the cave ties into a "fallen sith" or "remnant jedi" plot
@Printdevil I did, I didn't find it really worthwhile. Maybe I should look into it again.
there were a few neat ideas in there but it was as usual for 2nd edition completely overwritten
@kyonshi Well I wasn't advocating the 2nd Ed, but I was thinking the historical variance between the two and the whole "this is 25 years later" fits well into a Star Wars milieu so you can have backstory
and swap wraiths for forceghosts and stuff.
@kyonshi I just remember (and it's been a long time since I looked at either) that they address the cult in the cave, and I think that plays into your SW idea.
@kyonshi @Printdevil yeah, it's so painfully over written... But it does have some fun ideas in it.
That was my experience of it, I remember using it as a supplement to my own homebrew world, but not as a D&D thing
That's probably why it came to mind actually
If I was doing something sci-fi with them both, I would simply have to include some weird embedded psychometry- ghosts from the future bit were the players end up doing things in the past, and are referred to as the hauntings that happened... The force is good for that sort of hijinx, anything that exists eternally is always good ghost fodder.
@kyonshi
I am personally very impressed by the creative ideas in The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun.
@kyonshi I'm not arguing against Gary having some serious issues, but I do want to suggest you are wrong about this being a controversial statement. I'd say it's just how it is.
It doesn't feel like a controversial statement to me largely because it doesn't feel like a compliment.
@NinjaDebugger @kyonshi as a starting setting I think it's really good. It' quite bare bones, but it works quite well as something to build a game on.
I find the design of the caves of chaos mediocre at best, and it's telling that when they turned the B mods into B1-9 In Search of adventure, the caves are an optional followup to an astoundingly poorly constructed "introductory" module, Elwyn's Sanctuary.
@NinjaDebugger @kyonshi well, it doesn't make sense as ecology, but it's a branching mess of tunnels and multiple groups that are bound to have relationships to explore. I think it's pretty neat.
@AndreasDavour @NinjaDebugger The main focus of the module is not the caves, which is just a sample dungeon, but the Keep as a home base for the characters. It's a perfect sized little sandbox for beginners to learn the game and then go into other directions.
That's why the castle is paired with the generally superior intros Castle Caldwell and Rahasia in B1-9. Keep in itself was a poor intro with a very useful part. If Elwyn's Sanctuary weren't such trash, it wouldn't drag the whole thing down and that sequence going into caves of chaos would be sensical and good.
@NinjaDebugger I'm really not agreeing at all. Are you sure you're not letting your disgust about Gygax clouding your judgement just a bit? But, sure different material works for different people. Good suggestions for those who share your taste! :) @kyonshi
@AndreasDavour @NinjaDebugger I think there's multiple strains of people having issues with Keep. I think Castle Caldwell and Rahasia are ok modules, but they don't suit the purpose as Keep does. It's written to be adaptable to a high degree. It's incredibly generic, but that's the point. The idea of the B-modules was to show beginner DMs how adventures should be structured (before they got their panties in a twist when Jean Wells actually showed how that worked).
@AndreasDavour @NinjaDebugger and the way it did that was by first showing a dungeon to work out (B1), then a settlement with small local area to adapt (B2) and then a whole region with extensible castle (B3).
But then they didn't like how B3 looked and they went progressively more railroad on subsequent entries of the B series and none of them really are all that interesting.
@kyonshi @NinjaDebugger I think the majority opinion is that that the adventure is a celebrated classic for a reason, but as Gygax could be something of a dick, it's great to hear an alternative voice.
Thanks to this conversation I was reminded of *Rahasia*, and even if I don't think it has the qualities the module under critique has, it has some qualities I do like!