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@Angelika Wienert Ich könnte sie auch hier und jetzt in einer Antwort posten mitsamt Alt-Texten.

Aber die Bilder enthalten beide Augenkontakt. Und ich habe hier von Hubzilla aus keinerlei Möglichkeit, dafür zu sorgen, daß die Bilder auf Mastodon ausgeblendet werden. Ich würde potentiell haufenweise Leute damit triggern.

Also versuche ich es mal so in der Hoffnung, daß Mastodon keine Linkvorschauen mit Bildern generiert.

Link zu Bild Nr. 1

Originaler Alt-Text:

Digital rendering from OSgrid, one of the biggest out of thousands of 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. It shows Juno Rowland, a female avatar, standing at the end of a wooden pier with the ocean in the background. The avatar is designed to resemble a woman who is no older than in her 30s. She is slim underneath loose-fitting clothes. She has light to medium-light skin, brown eyes and black hair which is styled as a neck-long bob. She is wearing a black tank top with the logo of the 17th birthday of OSgrid on it, a straight, lower-thigh-length, light-to-medium-light-brown denim miniskirt, a pair of black flat ballet shoes and a golden necklace with the OSgrid logo. The OSgrid logo is made up from five identical parallelograms arranged in a circular, star-like pattern. It is also part of the birthday logo which is mostly two tones of yellowish orange. The writing on the birthday logo reads, from top to bottom, “OSgrid”, “The Open Source Metaverse” and “17th Birthday”. A more detailed description of the image, including explanations, can be found in the post itself. If you are on Mastodon, Misskey or one of their forks, you can find it by opening the summary and content warning which includes, “CW: long (22,270 characters, including 20,377 characters of image descriptions), eye contact”, and then following the actual post text. If you are on Pleroma, Akkoma, another Pleroma fork, Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams), the full description will follow right after the images.


Link zu Bild Nr. 2

Originaler Alt-Text:

Digital rendering from OSgrid, one of the biggest out of thousands of 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator. It shows Juno Rowland, a female avatar, standing at the end of a wooden pier with the ocean in the background. The avatar is designed to resemble a woman who is no older than in her 30s. She is slim underneath loose-fitting clothes. She has light to medium-light skin and black hair which is styled as a neck-long bob. She is wearing a black tank top, a straight, lower-thigh-length, light-to-medium-light-brown denim miniskirt, a pair of black flat ballet shoes and a golden necklace. She is looking at the cover of the Leonard Cohen album Recent Songs on a white easel. The cover is a painting of the musician's face. He is shown to be a middle-aged man with light skin, green eyes and black hair in a black shirt. A hummingbird is drawn hovering above his shoulder to the left. The background is medium blue. Cohen's name and the album title are written in the top corners. A more detailed description of the image, including explanations, can be found in the post itself. If you are on Mastodon, Misskey or one of their forks, you can find it by opening the summary and content warning which includes, “CW: long (22,270 characters, including 20,377 characters of image descriptions), eye contact”, and then following the actual post text. If you are on Pleroma, Akkoma, another Pleroma fork, Friendica, Hubzilla or (streams), the full description will follow right after the images.


Gemeinsame Langbeschreibung beider Bilder (ging in den Post direkt unter die Bilder):

Image descriptions


The medium and the basic setup


Both images in this post are digital renderings from inside a 3-D virtual world, using shaders, simplified real-time reflections and an artificial sun as a directed light source for illuminating the scenery and casting shadows, but without ray-tracing. It shows a digital avatar made to look like a fairly young woman. In the first image, she is standing at the end of a wooden pier. In the second image, she is standing next to a painted portrait of Leonard Cohen which he has used as an album cover.

The locations


The images were created in two different places in OSgrid, known as sims. Both are linked to the 17th anniversary of OSgrid which is celebrated from July 22th to July 28th, 2024.

OSgrid is a virtual world, a so-called "grid", based on a virtual-world engine named OpenSimulator. OpenSimulator, OpenSim in short, is a free, open-source, server-side re-implementation of the technology of Second Life. It is not affiliated with Linden Lab, the creators and owners of Second Life.

Second Life is a centralised, commercial 3-D virtual world launched in 2003. It experienced a big hype starting in 2007 which faded away in 2008. It still exists, it is constantly evolving, and it is celebrating its 21st anniversary this month.

In early 2007, Linden Lab laid open the source code of the official Second Life viewer, the client application needed to access Second Life. This revealed large parts of Second Life's technology and made not only the development of third-party viewers possible, but also the creation of a server application that can be used to create virtual worlds similar to Second Life. This server application was eventually named OpenSimulator, and the first test releases still came out in the first half of 2007.

Second Life, as well as the worlds based on OpenSimulator, are referred to as "grids" because they are split into square regions of 256 by 256 metres or roughly 280 by 280 yards. This roughly corresponds to a bit more than three by two major-league football pitches or soccer fields or a bit less than three by two American football fields.

While Second Life is a walled garden with only one publicly accessible grid that is connected to nothing else, OpenSimulator can be used by just about anyone to create and run their own grid. In 2008, a new feature called the Hypergrid was introduced that allows avatars registered on one grid to visit other grids. Thus, OpenSim is not only decentralised, but actually mostly federated. There are currently over 3,000 active grids, maybe over 4,000, and especially most of the larger public grids are connected to the Hypergrid.

Sims, in turn, are short for simulators which have to run in regions for any kind of content to be able to exist in them and for avatars to be able to enter them. In Second Life, one sim always covers one region. OpenSim has so-called varsims which can cover multiple regions arranged in a square without having borders between the regions. The upper limit imposed by the software is 32 by 32 or 1,024 regions, but anything significantly larger than 16 by 16 or 256 regions has been proven to be highly impractical.

OSgrid was the first public OpenSim grid. It was launched in July, 2007, as a proving ground for OpenSim's own development which it still is. Nonetheless, it was the first OpenSim grid to surpass Second Life in land area, and it currently is one out of two grids to have done so. Also, as early as 2007 already, OSgrid referred to OpenSim in general and then, by 2008, to itself as "the Open Source Metaverse". It has used this term for an actual virtual world 14 years earlier than Mark Zuckerberg. For about just as long, the word "metaverse" has been part of the standard vocabulary in the OpenSim community.

The avatar in both pictures


The avatar shown in the image is Juno Rowland. She is, in fact, a backup avatar for my female alt, short for alternate avatar, that goes by the same name and looks the same while being at home on another grid.

Juno is built to look like a young woman. OpenSim does not explicitly support different ethnicities, but the basic avatar-building components available in OpenSim are almost exclusively geared towards avatars looking white or Latin American and in the 30s at most. She is 1.74 metres or 5 feet 8 1/2 inches tall which is taller than the average real-life Western woman by about the length of an adult person's palm. She is fairly slim which is somewhat concealed by the loose fit of her clothes.

Juno's skin textures are light to medium-light. Highlights and partly also shades are part of the skin textures, but very subdued. Most shading on her is created by the shader built into the viewer.

She has brown eyes and black hair worn as a rather short bob that narrows downward from where her ears are and extends to a height halfway between her chin and her shoulders. Her bangs cover her forehead entirely. Strands of her bangs partly cover her eyebrows, and two of them extend down as far as her upper eyelids. On each side, a single thick lock extends forward and slightly inward. These locks occasionally cover parts of her lower cheeks.

Juno is wearing a loose-fitting black tank top with the official logo of the 17th grid birthday festivities on it. The logo stretches across about 90% of Juno's chest and from slightly higher than right below her breasts to slightly higher than the middle of the front of the shirt.

In the top left corner of the birthday logo, there is the OSgrid logo. It consists of five identical parallelograms. Each one of them resembles a rectangle which, when placed horizontally, has its short edges tilted to the right by 18 degrees. The long edges are longer than the short edges by about three quarters. These five parallelograms are arranged around a common centre at the same distance and at angles of 72 degrees from each other. There is always one pointed angle slipping under the long side of a neighbouring parallelogram. This way, the gap in the middle between the parallelograms is a five-point star. The outer short edge of each parallelogram is farther away from the centre than the parallel long edge of the neighbouring parallelogram by a bit over half the latter's width. The top right parallelogram is placed exactly vertically.

The whole logo has a light, yellowish orange tint. Size-wise, it takes up a bit more than 20% of the width and about 70% of the height of the entire birthday logo.

To the right of the OSgrid logo, there is the name of the grid, "OSgrid", written in all capitals in the same tint of orange as the OSgrid logo. The writing is about two thirds as tall as each parallelogram in the OSgrid logo is long. It starts to the right of the vertical top right parallelogram at roughly 80% of its width, and the top of the letters is slightly higher than the obtuse top right corner of the top right parallelogram. The typeface used is a heavy variant of the Futura typeface, a geometric sans-serif typeface known for fairly small lower-case characters and a lower-case "a" which is like a "d" with a shorter line, much like in hand-writing.

Right below, "The Open Source Metaverse" is written at a vertical distance that is roughly the same as the general thickness of the letters in the "OSgrid" writing. All four words start with capitals. The writing lines up with the "OSgrid" writing to the left. The typeface is the same as the one used for the "OSgrid" writing, only smaller by about 60%. It is small enough to not be easily readable in the image at the resolution at which the image was posted. The writing is tinted a light grey, resembling aluminium.

Most of the lower half is taken up by a horizontal rectangle, tinted a darker, slightly less saturated, slightly more brownish tone of orange. To the left, it lines up with the bottom pointy-angled corner of the bottom left parallelogram in the logo. To the right, it lines up with the end of the writing "The Open Source Metaverse". At the top, it almost touches the vertical line of the "p" in the same writing.

On this rectangle, "17th Birthday" is written in the same black as the rest of the tank top and the same typeface as the other two writings, but twice the height as the writing "The Open Source Metaverse". Vertically, this writing is slightly above the middle of the rectangle. Horizontally, it lines up with the other two writings on the left.

Below the tank top, Juno is wearing a straight, loose-fitting miniskirt which ends roughly the length of one of her hands above her knees. Its texture gives it a look like washed-out denim in various shades of slightly yellowish, medium-light-to-medium brown. Seams, pockets and the fly are all only part of the texture. The pocket on the front to the left from Juno's point of view is completely covered by the tank top, the pocket on the other side is mostly covered. The texture does not emulate any rear pockets.

Apart from the skirt, Juno's legs are bare. On her feet, she is wearing a pair of flat ballet shoes which mostly show a black texture, slightly lighter than the tank top, with a structure that resembles an unidentified fabric. The insides of the shoes are a medium-light, shaded tone of brown, suggesting some fabric or thin leather again. The soles are a medium-light, slightly reddish brown. They have very low heels.

Around her neck, Juno is wearing a necklace consisting what appears to be a single wire of solid gold of a similar thickness as the material used for clothes hangers plus an OSgrid logo made of gold as well. The logo is a bit over half as big as the one on her tank top. The eye through which the wire runs is attached near one of the outer obtuse-angled corners, so the logo is rotated to the left in comparison with the one on the tank top. Both the wire and the logo are glossy, the logo more than the wire, but the material appearance is textured onto both.

In both Second Life and OpenSim-based worlds, unlike most other 3-D virtual worlds, avatars are not only highly configurable in-world, but also highly modular. Everything on Juno is an attachment. Her body is an attachment, the head included. Her feet are a separate attachment; different feet for medium and high heels are available. The skin textures can be replaced, and standard skins can be worn on this body. The eye texture can be replaced, too. Eyelashes, fingernails and toenails are attachments, although the latter are fully concealed inside her shoes. Her hair is an attachment. The top, the skirt, each shoe and the necklace are separate attachments which makes it possible for her to wear all kinds of outfits. Her shape is configurable with over 80 parameters, and even that can be replaced with another one which is usually just as configurable.

Everything that Juno is made up from was made by users. Everything else, including the purpose-made texture on the tank top, was made directly for OpenSim.

The scenery in the first image


The first image was created on a sim called Tropicana Tuneage, a multi-purpose sim which is regularly used for events, but which is also Juno's home in OSgrid.

The scenery is limited to a wooden pier which Juno is standing on. It takes up the lower 45% of the image. Its water-side end would line up with the lower side of Juno's butt if she was shown from behind. The top surface of the pier is textured in a way that suggests wooden planks that run transversally across the pier. The wood is very slightly less yellowish tone of brown than Juno's skirt and varies greatly between light-medium, almost light, and medium. The sides of the pier are outside the borders of the image.

The pier leads to the southwest. The camera angle follows it almost exactly in parallel. It is oriented farther to the right by about one degree. It is also roughly at the height of Juno's waist.

Beyond the pier and behind Juno, there is nothing but blue sea with gentle waves on it. The tone of blue has a fairly low saturation, and some of the waves are partly almost medium-dark grey. The horizon is at almost precisely two thirds of the height of the image, roughly below Juno's breasts, which shows that the camera is tilted downward by a few degrees.

The sky is a very pale, greenish blue with a very faint gradient towards the horizon that suggests haze. To Juno's right, there are some thin clouds which increasingly blend in with the sky, the lower they are. A bit of cloud is above her head as well. There are no clouds to her left.

Juno in the first image


Juno is slightly left of centre, standing on her right foot while moving her left foot forward and turning it to the left. She is about to turn herself around. Her arms are on her sides, the left arm is moved a bit forward. Her hands are relaxed with both middle fingers bent inward a little more than the other fingers.

Juno's face is expressionless. Any expressions would require specific animations to be played, mostly manually which would be an extra effort. She is looking past a point slightly above the camera.

Her hair is fully covering her ears. The lock on the left of her face, the right for the on-looker, is in front of the lower parts of her cheek. So is the lock on the other side, but less so.

Lighting in the first image


The simulated time of day is late afternoon. The sun is quite low already in the west. This can be told by the shadows which Juno's legs cast on the wooden planks texture on the pier as well as some narrow highlights on her neck, her arms and her legs. The sun itself is not in the image.

Apart from the sun, there is medium grey ambient light that shines the same from everywhere and therefore doesn't create any shadows.

Save for being cropped, the image is unedited and unprocessed.

The scenery in the second image


The second image was created in a different place on the same grid named OSG17B2. The name refers to OSgrid's 17th birthday, OSG17B in short. It is the second one of four numbered exhibition sims created for the birthday, two of which were opened to the public while the other two remain unused.

In the second image, Juno is inside a building used as a gallery of music album covers.

Most of the right-hand 60% of the image are taken up by an art easel. It is about one and two thirds times as high as Juno is tall while appearing smaller due to the perspective. It is rotated to the right from the camera being directly aimed at its front by about 25 degrees.

The easel is a fairly stable and elaborate construction which looks like it is adjustable for various canvas sizes. Below where the canvas would be put, there is a shelf for painting utensils. The easel is mostly white with no texture on it. The exceptions are eleven slotted screw heads and a handle roughly shaped like a six-point star with which the easel can be adjusted to different canvas sizes. They have metal-like, partly light grey, partly light yellowish or brownish textures with medium-light orange spots hinting at corrosion. These textures include highlights and shading. The parts themselves are not shiny. Of the screw heads, only five are unobscured. One is holding the adjustment handle in place. Three are holding the almost vertical part of the easel together, one close to the top, two near the bottom. The fifth one connects the right-hand rear support to the foot.

The easel is adjusted for something way bigger than what it is carrying. It's the cover of the album Recent Songs by the singer-songwriter Leonard Cohen. It was released in 1979 as his sixth studio album, and it is not known for high-charting single releases. The cover is about half as high as Juno is tall. Again, due to the perspective, it appears to be smaller. Its aspect ratio is very slightly warped, it is a little wider than it is high.

The album cover is based on a frontal facial portrait painting of Cohen by Dianne Lawrence. It shows him as a middle-aged, light-skinned man with green eyes and black, medium-short hair which he wears in a somewhat asymmetrical hairdo that is slightly fuller on his left, the on-looker's right, than on the other side. The top of his hair is cut off by the top edge of the canvas. At the bottom, the portrait ends at Cohen's shoulders. He is wearing a black shirt which lacks too many details to be identifiable any further.

The background behind him is a solid, slightly pale medium blue with a minimal hint of green.

Above his right shoulder, his left shoulder from the on-looker's point of view, there is a drawing of a hummingbird which is only black and background blue and about as long from beak to tail feathers as Cohen's mouth is wide. The bird seems to be hovering above his shoulder with no intention to touch down. Its beak is oriented to the right for the on-looker and tilted slightly downward to between Cohen's shoulder and the collar of his shirt.

Between the top left corner and Cohen's hair, his name is written, "Leonard Cohen". Likewise, between his hair and the top right corner, the title of the album is written, "Recent Songs". Both are in black, fairly small, in an unidentified, very heavy geometric sans-serif typeface and in all-caps.

The narrow right-hand side of the box that has the portrait on its front has a medium-dark wood texture, slightly reddish, slightly greyish, with the grain perpendicular to the long edges.

The wall behind the easel is mostly white with a black circular pattern on it. It consists of 39 concentric circles whose thickness increase from the outermost to the innermost circle. Instead of a 40th circle, there is a dot in the centre which is a little bigger than the thickness of the innermost circle. The texture itself is a bit over one and a half times as high as Juno is tall and twice as wide as it is high. Thus, it has ample of white space on both sides whereas the outermost 16 circles are more or less cut at the top and the bottom. Two of these patterns are within the border of the image above one another. The upper one is cut off by the upper edge of the image in such a way that only the two innermost circles are complete.

The wall makes up a bit less than the upper two thirds of the background of the image. Apart from Juno and the easel, everything below is ground. The edge between the wall and the floor shows that the camera is rotated from being perpendicular to the wall by some five degrees to the left. Thus, the easel is rotated to the right by about 20 degrees from being parallel to the wall. Besides, the camera is as high above the ground as Juno's waist and tilted downward only very minimally.

The ground is a medium orange in the bottom left corner of the image. It gets a little darker and more purplish towards the opposite corner where it meets the wall.

Juno in the second image


Juno is on the left-hand side of the image. standing in front of the easel, a little left of its centre, and facing it. The image shows her to the left of the easel and from the rear right. Her head is tilted downward as if she was looking at the album cover. Her face is entirely on the far side of her head. The bottom of her hair is shifted to the back and to the left because she is actually in motion. Her right ear is still fully concealed under hair.

Her arms are relaxed on both sides. She is resting her weight on her right leg while having lifted up the heel of her left foot.

The right strap of her tank top is hovering above her right shoulder at a distance of a little more than the thickness of one of her fingers. The background appears through the gap.

Lighting in the second image


The only light available in the image are the omnipresent medium grey ambient light and several white point light on the ceiling beyond the edges of the image, only one of which is on this side of the wall. The sun is fixed straight above the scene, but the roof of the building which is outside the image is in its way. Since shadows are on in this picture, the roof keeps the sunlight out. Point light sources like those on the ceiling don't cast shadows, so they add to the ambient light, but they only illuminate avatars, objects and the like from one side. The highlights on her legs hint at the position of the sole point light on this side of the wall, namely behind and slightly to the left of Juno.

Save for being cropped, the image is unedited and unprocessed.


#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta
streams.elsmussols.netJupiter Rowland's (streams) outlet - jupiter_rowland@streams.elsmussols.net
Replied in thread
@Angelika Wienert Wenn du Bildbeschreibungen so kritisch betrachtest, hätte ich gern deine ehrliche Meinung zu meinem letzten Bilderpost, der jetzt auch schon wieder fast ein Jahr her sein dürfte. Würdest du sagen, die Bilder sind hinreichend detailliert und akkurat beschrieben, oder fehlt dir da etwas?

Vorab: Das ist kein Mastodon-Tröt, aber trotzdem ein Post im Fediverse, der auch nach Mastodon gekommen ist. Und er ist sehr lang.

Er enthält zwei Bilder, die ich jeweils zweimal beschrieben habe: einmal "kurz" im Alt-Text, einmal sehr viel länger und detaillierter mit Text-Transkripten im Post selbst inklusive einer gemeinsamen Präambel für beide Beschreibungen, die auch alle nötigen Erklärungen enthält.

Das Original findest du hier auf (streams). Da wirst du erst die Zusammenfassung nebst Inhaltswarnung öffnen müssen, dann nach unten scrollen bzw. den Post ausklappen, dann ein Spoiler-Tag mit zusätzlicher Inhaltswarnung öffnen, um die Bilder sehen zu können.

Wenn du an einem Computer bist, werden die Alt-Texte ganz klassisch angezeigt, wenn du den Mauscursor auf eins der Bilder schiebst. Was Smartphones oder Tablets angeht, bin ich überfragt.

Alternativ kannst du dir den Post ansehen auf Mastodons Weboberfläche, indem du auf mastodon.social nach dem Hashtag #⁠OSG17B suchst. Da ist es dann der dritte Post von unten.

Du solltest sehr viel Zeit mitbringen. Der Alt-Text des ersten Bildes ist 1.500 Zeichen lang, der des zweiten Bildes 1.499, und die langen Beschreibungen messen insgesamt über 20.000 Zeichen.

Ich arbeite seit Ende letzten Jahres immer mal wieder an den Bildbeschreibungen für eine Reihe von Portraitbildern. Ich habe mich auch schon sehr, sehr umfassend über Bildbeschreibungen informiert und sehr gute Gründe für so lange Bildbeschreibungen. Trotzdem hätte ich gern die eine oder andere Meinung zu meinen Bildbeschreibungen. Falls ich irgendwelche Fehler gemacht habe oder irgendwo nachlässig war, will ich das nicht wiederholen.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta
streams.elsmussols.netHappy 17th birthday, OSgrid!OSgrid is probably the oldest 3-D virtual world based on free and open-source software (OpenSimulator) and run by community members. It's definitely the oldest 3-D virtual world that's federated with other virtual worlds. And it is celebrating its 17th anniversary this week, all week, up until...
Replied in thread
@Kevin Russell
I frequently put both a screenshot and url in alt text, by FAR the most information-rich and honest way to provide some potentially missing information.

Never provide any information exclusively in alt-text!

Not everyone can access alt-text. Accessing alt-text requires either at least one properly working hand (which not everyone has) or a screen reader (which sighted people don't have).

Those who don't have either will not be able to get any information that's only available in the alt-text and nowhere else.

See also the following pages in my early-work-in-progress wiki about image descriptions and alt-text in the Fediverse:

Also (I don't have a page on that yet), don't add URLs to alt-text. Alt-text is always plain text. No webpage, no Fediverse software will
turn an URL in alt-text into a functional, clickable link, no browser or Fediverse app will, and no screen reader will.

All this belongs into the post itself.

CC: @Miss Gayle @Logan 5 and 999 others

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euJupiter Rowland - jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
Replied in thread
@Pistolenkind
Aber hier iist das halt echt nicht viel verlangt. Du musst nur n Knöpfchen drücken. Das kann jeder. Keine Ausreden. Oder du scheißt halt drauf, und damit auf alle anderen.

Na ja, mit "Knöpfchen drücken", und du hast sofort den optimalen, 100% akkuraten Alt-Text da, wo er hingehört, ist es nicht immer getan.

Erstens nutzt nicht jeder eine Mastodon-Smartphone-App mit direkter Alt-Text-KI-Einbindung. Beispiel: Mein Mastodon ist Hubzilla, mein Smartphone ist ein Debian-PC, und meine App ist das Webinterface in einem Browser.

Zweitens kann auch nicht jedes Bild von einer KI hinreichend beschrieben werden. An meinen eigenen Bildern (Renderings aus super-obskuren virtuellen 3-D-Welten, wo schon von dem darunterliegenden System vielleicht einer von 200.000 Fediverse-Nutzern je gehört hat) ist schon mehrfach eine KI kläglich gescheitert. Wohlgemerkt, im direkten Vergleich mit meinen selbstrecherchierten und handgeschriebenen Bildbeschreibungen.

Und drittens ist auch das Einbauen des eigentlichen Alt-Text nicht überall so einfach wie auf Mastodon. Ich muß den Alt-Text z. B. händisch in den Bildeinbettungs-Markup-Code reinbauen.

Übrigens: In meinem Fall ist es so aufwendig, meine Bilder so zu beschreiben, daß es nach meinen Erfahrungen adäquat ist, daß ich dieses ganze Jahr noch kein einziges neues Bild gepostet habe und immer noch an Beschreibungen für eine Bilderserie bastle, mit denen ich schon Ende 2024 angefangen habe.

CC: @Der böse Hexe Njähähä 🧙‍♀️🪄⚡

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #LangerPost #CWLangerPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Hubzilla #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Bildbeschreibung #Bildbeschreibungen #BildbeschreibungenMeta #CWBildbeschreibungenMeta #KI
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Alex Feinman @Nora Reed Alt-text must never include explanations! Explanations must always go into the post itself!

Not everyone can access alt-text. Sighted people need a mouse/trackball/touchpad/trackpoint or a touch screen to access alt-text. And in order to operate that, they need at least one working hand. But not everyone has working hands. Just like not everyone can see, which is why you describe your images in the first place, right?

For those who can't access alt-text, any information only available in alt-text and neither in the post text nor in the image itself is inaccessible and lost. They can't open it, they can't read it.

Here are three relevant pages in my (very early WIP) wiki about image descriptions and alt-text:

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Disability #A11y #Accessibility
hub.netzgemeinde.euJupiter Rowland - jupiter_rowland@hub.netzgemeinde.eu
Replied in thread
@Oskar im Keller Das kam mit Mastodon 4.4.0. Jetzt mußt du den kleinen "Alt"-Button unten rechts klicken.

Ganz allmählich glaube ich, diese Änderung an sich ist nicht so schlimm wie die Tatsache, daß die Mastodon-Entwickler sie ganz offenkundig nicht deutlich genug angekündigt haben.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@quadrivial 💛🇺🇦🇨🇦🇲🇽 Even if that's the case, keep in mind that blind or visually-impaired people rely on the self-same AI databases that scrape alt-texts in the Fediverse to have images with no alt-text described to them.

If you refuse to describe your images in alt-texts to deprive AI scrapers of data, you hurt blind/visually-impaired people twice over.

#AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #AI
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
Replied in thread
@Hannah Steenbock You can't change it. This was intentionally changed and hard-coded into Mastodon 4.4 by the Mastodon devs. You have to click the black "Alt" badge in the bottom right corner of the image now to get the alt-text.

#FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Mastodon #Mastodon4.4 #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #AltTextMissing
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@Bob Tregilus You could work around this by writing the alt-text in an external text editor and then copy-pasting it over into the alt-text field. If you need to see both the editor and the image, you could resize the editor so that it doesn't cover the images and set it to always be on top. An extra perk is that you can save your alt-text as a text file and re-use it later.

I myself always write my image descriptions in an external editor.

#AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@Gemma ⭐🔰🇺🇸 🇵🇭 🎐 I do 1 and 3.

1 to such extents that the actual alt-text only contains a short description where "short" means anything between ca. 900 and ca. 1,400 characters. The long description goes into the post, and it regularly measures several tens of thousands of characters. Also, I don't describe what's in the image as I can see it in the image, I describe what's in the image as I can see it at the place where the image was made, i.e. at an almost infinitely higher resolution and, if need be, with the ability of looking around obstacles.

Someone somewhere out there might be interested in these details and at the same time consider having to ask for further descriptions lazy or maybe even ableist.

What I no longer do, however, is describe images within my image at more details than visible in the place where I've taken the image. In one of my last image descriptions, I would otherwise have had to describe not only multiple images in my image, but dozens of images in one image in my image and probably even more images in these images.

3 to such extents that I even transcribe text that's unreadable in the image, but that I can read at the place where the image was made. Also, I've once had a sign (unreadable of course) in English, French and rather broken German. I transcribed all three languages character by character, and I translated the French and the German text into English right after transcribing each one of it. Another reason why my long image descriptions are so long. This irritates screen readers because they can't switch languages mid-text, but if 100% verbatim transcripts are the rule, then so be it.

The only thing I no longer do regarding this is transcribe all-caps as all-caps because screen readers may or may not misinterpret them. Also, I don't transcribe Roman numbers as such.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Transcripts
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@Audrey Winter Some people say, "Just write alt-text. It takes you a few seconds, and everything is better than nothing." Often enough, however, when you actually show them your alt-text, they decide that that is not better than nothing.

In fact, you increasingly rarely see this come from the alt-text police of the Mastodon HOA. They have minimum quality standards. They're ready and willing to enforce these standards, and they already do. However, they don't communicate their minimum quality standards with each other, and so their individual standards may contradict each other.

Also, people say you don't have to satisfy everyone. The same people, howevery, may insist that you have to fully satisfy them specifically. And if everyone says you have to fully satisfy them, then you do have to satisfy everyone.

For example, some may want you to describe everything of which they don't know what it looks like, but they're curious about what it looks like. Expecting them to ask for details is so bad and ignorant that it's easily considered ableist. No, you have to deliver everything they want to know on a silver platter right away, either in the alt-text or in the post text, but not someplace entirely else.

My images consist of stuff that next to nobody knows what it looks like, including fully sighted people the very second before they see the image. So I spend hours upon hours describing every last nitty-gritty detail in my images, and I write two descriptions for each image because I can't fit a full description into 1,500 characters.

And then someone else may come and sanction me for writing too long descriptions. I only expect this not to happen too often because most Mastodon users nope out when they see in the summary and CW that my posts are tens of thousands of characters long. Which means over 500 characters.

That's all also because alt-text and image descriptions only matter on Mastodon (and Pixelfed which is basically a Mastodon satellite), and Mastodon is terrible for discussions due to its lack of support for threaded conversations, much less groups. Thus, next to nobody ever actually discusses image descriptions, and most people are completely unaware of the existence of opinions and attitudes concerning image descriptions that are different from theirs. And so those who enforce image descriptions only enforce their own ideals, and those who post images must cater to contradicting requirements.

I've actually started working on a wiki on how to describe images and writing alt-texts for the Fediverse. And even I must admit in the wiki that my sources contradict each other, and so do certain elements of describing images.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@ScotsBear 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 Just for me to be on the safe side: What are your minimum requirements for alt-texts and image descriptions so you refrain from sanctioning a user?

Full, to-the-point adherence to the Accessible Social guidelines, the Cooper Hewitt guidelines, Veronica With Four Eyes' various guidelines etc., even though they contradict each other?

Do you demand image descriptions be detailed and informative enough so that nobody will ever have to ask the poster about explanations and/or details because they're all already in the descriptions, no matter how niche and obscure the content of the image is?

If there is already a lengthy image description in the post itself (imagine all character limits you know in the Fediverse; it's longer than all of them by magnitudes), do you still demand there be another description in the alt-text, even though the alt-text actually points the user to the description in the post, because there absolutely must be a sufficiently detailed and accurate image description in the alt-text, full stop?

In fact, do you sanction image descriptions in general or alt-texts in particular if you think they are too long? For example, if you stumble upon an image post from me that has a "short" image description of 1,400 characters in the alt-text and a "long" image description of over 60,000 characters in the post itself (and I've actually posted such a thing into the Fediverse; here's the link to the source), will you demand I discard two days and some 30 hours of work, delete the long description and cut the short description down to no more than 200 characters? Maybe even while still retaining the same amount of information? Lest you have me dogpiled and mass-blocked or worse?

By the way, I think I've gathered a whole lot of experience and knowledge about describing images generally and specifically for the Fediverse, and I also see the high level of detail in my image descriptions as fully justified.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
www.accessible-social.comWriting Image DescriptionsTips on how to write effective image descriptions to make visuals accessible.
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@Icarosity It's similar for me, only that I always put a gigantic effort into describing my own images twice, once not exactly briefly in the alt-text and once with even more details in the post itself. Sometimes I find an interesting motive, but when I start thinking about how to describe it, I don't even render an image because it isn't worth doing so if I can't post it.

I haven't posted a new image in almost a year. In fact, I've got a series of fairly simple images for which I've started writing the descriptions late last year, and I'm still not done. So much about "it only takes a few seconds".

Before someone suggests I could use Altbot: I'm not even sure if it'll work with Hubzilla posts. And besides, no AI on this planet is fit for the task of properly, appropriately and accurately describing the kind of images that I post.

@Baranduin And then there's me who has managed to describe one image in a bit over ten thousand words last year. Good thing I have a post character limit of over 16.7 million. And I actually limited myself this time: I did not describe images within my image in detail, in stark contrast to about two years ago when I described a barely visible image in an image in well over 4,000 characters of its own, and that wasn't the only image within that image that I described.

CC: @Logan 5 and 999 others

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
MastodonIcarosity (@nancywisser@mastodon.social)5.71K Posts, 72 Following, 463 Followers · mostly harmless
Observer: always looking and curious about overlooked things, especially plants, especially native plants. I take a lot of pictures. I have a cat and I grow slipper orchids. Oh yeah also—I’m an old
Just a visitor here—Tumblr is my home and there I am geopsych 
death trap clad happily
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@Logan 5 and 999 others First of all: You must never put line breaks into alt-text. Ever. (https://www.tpgi.com/short-note-on-coding-alt-text/, https://joinfediverse.wiki/Draft:Captions#Line_breaks)

Besides, that will certainly not be the day that I'll post my first image after more than a year.

It's tedious enough to properly describe my original images at the necessary level of detail, and one image takes me many hours to describe, sometimes up to two full days, morning to evening. Not joking here. I certainly won't put extra effort into turning at least the 900 characters of "short" description that go into the alt-text into a poem. And I definitely will not also turn the additional 20,000, 40,000, 60,000 characters of long description that go into the post into a poem as well. (And yes, I can post 60,000+ characters in one go, and I have done so in the past. My character limit is 16,777,215.)

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta
TPGi · Short note on coding alt text - TPGiThe other day, in relation to a github comment, I was asked by my friend Mike[tm]Smith “Can alt have line breaks in it or does that do weird things to...
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@Logan 5 and 999 others The altbot posts its image description in a reply to wherever you've mentioned it. The image description will be in a wholly separate message than the image.

The altbot cannot automatically edit your image post and insert its image description into the alt-text field. You have to copy the image description generated by the altbot, edit your image post and paste the image description into the alt-text field manually.

#AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #AltBot
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦 This would require three things, however.

One, any Fediverse server software would have to be capable of altering comments from any Fediverse software. Don't think that posts, comments etc. aren't formatted the same everywhere. They aren't.

For example, Mastodon would have to know and understand that it would have to remove @⁠osma@mas.to from Misskey, Sharkey, CherryPick, Iceshrimp etc. notes, @[url⁠=https://mas.to/users/osma]Osma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦[/url] from Friendica, Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte comments and an invisible shadow mention from (streams) and Forte comments, too.

Two, anyone in the Fediverse would have to always have full and unlimited permission to alter everyone else's content without their consent. This is particularly crucial in the cases of Hubzilla, (streams) and Forte with their highly advanced and fine-grained permissions systems that don't even cover having your content altered by others.

Three, edits on any Fediverse software must always be federated to absolutely everywhere and anywhere in the Fediverse, no exceptions, regardless of software. AFAIK, there is Fediverse server software that still doesn't understand edits at all, and that will either ignore received edits or understand them as and treat them like new posts.

It's very similar to the wish for being able to edit alt-texts into other people's posts which seems to pretty much always come from people who think that the Fediverse is only Mastodon, or at least that everything in the Fediverse is like Mastodon plus one or two extra features.

And let's be honest: If you give especially Mastodon users the ability to alter other people's posts, they will want to alter other people's posts in lots of other ways. Like, delete summaries on Friendica/Hubzilla/(streams)/Forte posts because they're "abuse of the CW field" from a "Fediverse = Mastodon" point of view. Remove all hashtags but four, regardless of these hashtags triggering the automated, individual, reader-side content warnings that have existed in the Friendica family since five and a half years before Mastodon was first published. Cutting "long posts" (= everything over 500 characters) down to a maximum of 500 characters because "the Fediverse was invented by Eugen Rochko for only microblogging". Even removing any and all mentions of the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. Removing text formatting because "it has no place in a Twitter alternative". Or removing all contents from posts or comments altogether.

Of course, the very same Mastodon users will completely flip their shit if a Friendica user comes and copies their 20-post threads into one long post, deletes the contents of the 19 follow-ups afterwards and replaces the content warning in the abstract field (= their CW field) with an actual abstract, just to fit it into a Fediverse culture that's way older than Mastodon itself.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Fediverse #Mastodon #NotOnlyMastodon #FediverseIsNotMastodon #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse #Misskey #Sharkey #CherryPick #Iceshrimp #Friendica #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #Mention #Mentions #MentionTag #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #Permission #Permissions
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@Georgiana Brummell Isn't the A2I post quite a bit out-dated?

Some two years ago, I've read about screen readers not supporting more than 200 characters in alt-text. But people who actually use screen readers told me that all screen reader software available has long been upgraded to support an infinite number of characters. And next to nobody uses old versions with a 200-character limit anymore.

And now I often see posts and articles, even recent ones, mention a hard limit of 125 characters for alt-text in screen readers. This must actually be leftover information from the mid-2010s at best.

Case in point: I've never seen anyone in the Fediverse being criticised for what would be absolutely excessively long alt-text by Web design standards. Proof enough that screen readers can easily handle 800 or 1,000 or more characters of alt-text.

As far as I'm informed, the only issue is that screen readers cannot navigate alt-texts, i.e. you cannot rewind to a certain point within an alt-text and have it re-read from there. You can only jump back to the beginning of the alt-text and have the whole alt-text re-read. The longer an alt-text is, the less convenient this is.

By the way: I've started working on an entire wiki on how to describe images properly and write image descriptions in general and alt-texts specifically for the Fediverse. It will take quite a number of existing guides and how-tos and the like into consideration and link to them. It will also take both Mastodon's culture and the special perks of the various places in the Fediverse outside of Mastodon into consideration. When guides contradict each other, I'll mention that as well.

It has to be a wiki because it will contain so much information that it simply wouldn't fit onto one page anymore. Also, I want to be able to point people at certain aspects of describing images or writing alt-texts such as how colours should be described, why people's races should never be mentioned and why explanations do not belong into alt-texts. I don't want to tell them to scroll down to a certain paragraph. I want to show them one page that specialises in that particular topic.

I'm not sure if that's utter overkill, if that'll stand in the way of just "doing it" and actually drive people away from describing images. But in my opinion, someone has to tell people how to do it properly.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #A11y #Accessibility
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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Are you referring to my mentions being @Erik :heart_agender: and @Roknrol rather than what you're used to, namely @⁠bright_helpings and @⁠roknrol? Using the long name rather than the short name and keeping the @ outside the link rather than making it part of the link? Likewise, the # being outside the hashtag link rather than being part of it?

This is because I'm not on Mastodon. The Fediverse is not only Mastodon. It has never been. So this is not a toot.

No, really. This is what I post from: https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/channel/jupiter_rowland, https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/profile/jupiter_rowland. I ask you: Does this look like Mastodon? Have you ever seen Mastodon look like this?

Where I am, this style of mentions and hashtags is hard-coded. And it has been since long before Mastodon was even an idea.

I'm on something named Hubzilla. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon instance. Hubzilla is not a Mastodon fork either. Hubzilla has got absolutely nothing to do with Mastodon at all.

It is its very own project, fully independent from Mastodon (https://hubzilla.org, https://framagit.org/hubzilla, https://joinfediverse.wiki/Hubzilla).

Hubzilla has not intruded into "the Mastodon Fediverse" either. The Fediverse is older than Mastodon. And Hubzilla was there before Mastodon.

Hubzilla was launched by @Mike Macgirvin ?️ in March, 2015, eight months before Mastodon, by renaming and redesigning his own Red Matrix from 2012, almost four years before Mastodon. And the Red Matrix was a fork of a fork of his own Friendica, which was launched on July 2nd, 2010, 15 years ago, five and a half years before Mastodon. (https://en.wikipedia.org/Friendica, https://friendi.ca, https://github.com/friendica, https://joinfediverse.wiki/Friendica)

Friendica was there before Mastodon, too.

Here's the official Friendica/Hubzilla timeline on Hubzilla's official website to show you that I'm not making anything up: https://hubzilla.org/page/info/timeline. Scroll all the way down and notice all the features that you may right now know for a fact that the Fediverse doesn't have, but that Friendica has introduced to the Fediverse 15 years ago, five and a half years before Mastodon was launched.

Again, Mastodon has never been its own network. The Fediverse has never been only Mastodon. When Mastodon was launched in January, 2016, it immediately federated with

Friendica has been formatting mentions and hashtags the way I just did for 15 years now. When Mastodon was launched, Friendica has been formatting them that way for five and a half years already, and Hubzilla has done so for ten months. It is hard-coded there. It is not a user option.

That's because not everything in the Fediverse is a Twitter clone or Twitter alternative. [b]Friendica was designed as a Facebook alternative with full-blown long-form blogging capability. And Hubzilla adds even more stuff to this. This is why Friendica and Hubzilla don't mimic Twitter.

Another shocking fact: As you can clearly see here, Friendica and Hubzilla don't have Mastodon's 500-character limit. Friendica's character limit is 200,000. Hubzilla's character limit is 16,777,215, the maximum length of the database field. And it's deeply engrained in their culture, which is many years older than Mastodon's culture, to not worry about the length of a post exceeding 500 characters.

One more shocking fact: Friendica has had quote-posts since its very beginning. So has Hubzilla. Both have always been able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot, and they will forever remain able to quote-post any public Mastodon toot. And Mastodon will never be able to do anything against it. (By the way: In 15 years of Friendica, nobody has ever used quote-posts for dogpiling or harassment purposes. Neither Friendica nor Hubzilla is Twitter.)

You find this disturbing? You think none of this should exist in the Fediverse, even though all this has been in the Fediverse for longer than Mastodon?

Then go ahead and block all instances of Friendica and Hubzilla as well as all instances of Mike's later creations, (streams) (https://codeberg.org/streams/streams) from 2021 and Forte (https://codeberg.org/fortified/forte) from 2024.

Or you could go ask @Seirdy / DM me the word "bread" and @Garden Fence Blocklist as well as @Mad Villain of @The Bad Space to add every last instance on any of these lists to their blocklists for being "rampantly and unabashedly ableist and xenophobic by design" due to not being and acting and working like Mastodon and just as rampantly and unabashedly refusing to fully adopt and adapt to the Mastodon-centric "Fediverse culture" as defined by fresh Twitter refugees on Mastodon in mid-2022 as well as refusing to abandon their own culture which is disturbingly incompatible with Mastodon's. Essentially try and have four entire Fediverse server applications Fediblocked once and for all because they're so disturbing from a "Fediverse equals Mastodon" point of view.

Or you could go to Mastodon's GitHub repository (https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon), submit a feature request for defederating Mastodon from everything that isn't Mastodon by design and then go lobbying for support for your feature request.

As for why I have so many hashtags below my comments, here is what they mean. Many of them are meant to trigger filters, including such that automatically hide posts behind content warning buttons, a feature that Mastodon has had since October, 2022, that Friendica has had since July, 2010, and that Hubzilla has had since March, 2015.

  • #Long, #LongPost = This post is over 500 characters long. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see my or anyone else's long posts.
  • #CWLong, #CWLongPost = CW: long post (over 500 characters long). Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see my or anyone else's long posts.
  • #FediMeta, #FediverseMeta = This post talks about the Fediverse. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone talk about the Fediverse.
  • #CWFediMeta, #CWFediverseMeta = CW: Fediverse meta. Or: CW: Fediverse meta, Fediverse-beyond-Mastodon meta. Or: CW: Fediverse meta, non-Mastodon Fediverse meta. Create a filter for either or both of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone talk about the Fediverse.
  • #NotOnlyMastodon, #FediverseIsNotMastodon, #MastodonIsNotTheFediverse: This post talks about the Fediverse not only being Mastodon. Create a filter for either or multiple or all of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about the Fediverse being more than Mastodon. Otherwise, click or tap any of these hashtags to read more about it in your Fediverse app.
  • #Friendica: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse named Friendica. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Friendica. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
  • #Hubzilla: This post talks about the Swiss army knif of the Fediverse named Hubzilla. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Hubzilla. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
  • #Streams, #(streams): This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse commonly referred to as (streams). Create a filter for either or both of them if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Friendica. Otherwise, click or tap either of them to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
  • #Forte: This post talks about the Facebook alternative in the Fediverse named Forte. Create a filter for it if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about Forte. Otherwise, click or tap it to read more about it in your Fediverse app. It is also meant for post discovery.
  • #AltText = This post talks about alt-text and/or contains an image with alt-text. It is primarily meant for post discovery.
  • #AltTextMeta = This post talks about alt-text. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about alt-text.
  • #CWAltTextMeta = CW: alt-text meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about alt-text.
  • #ImageDescription = This post talks about image descriptions and/or contains an image with an image description. It is primarily meant for post discovery.
  • #ImageDescriptions, #ImageDescriptionMeta = This post talks about image descriptions. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about image descriptions.
  • #CWImageDescriptionMeta = CW: image description meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about image descriptions.
  • #Hashtag, #Hashtags, #HashtagMeta = This post talks about hashtags. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about hashtags.
  • #CWHashtagMeta = CW: hashtag meta. Create a filter for this hashtag if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about hashtags.
  • #CharacterLimit, #CharacterLimits = This post is talking about character limits. It is primarily meant for post discovery. But if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about character limits, create a filter for any of these hashtags.
  • #QuotePost, #QuoteTweet, #QuoteToot, #QuoteBoost = This post talks about quote-posts and/or contains a quote-post. If this disturbs you, create a filter for any of these hashtags.
  • #QuotePosts, #QuoteTweets, #QuoteToots, #QuoteBoosts, #QuotedShares = This post talks about quote-posts. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about quote-posts.
  • #QuotePostDebate, #QuoteTootDebate = This post talks about quote-posts. Create a filter for either of these hashtags if you don't want to see me or anyone else talk about quote-posts.
  • #FediblockMeta = This post is talking about fediblocks. It is primarily meant for post discovery.

Lastly: Having all hashtags in one line at the very end of a post that only contains hashtags is the preferred way in the Fediverse. For one, hashtags in their own line at the end of the post irritate screen reader users much less than hashtags in the middle of the text. It's actually hashtags in the middle of the text that are ableist. Besides, Mastodon is explicitly designed to have a separate hashtag line at the end of the post.
hub.netzgemeinde.euJupiter RowlandAn avatar roaming the decentralised and federated 3-D virtual worlds based on OpenSimulator, a free and open-source server-side re-implementation of Second Life. Mostly talking about OpenSim, sometimes about other virtual worlds, occasionally about the Fediverse beyond Mastodon. No, the Fediverse is not only Mastodon. If you're looking for real-life people posting about real-life topics, go look somewhere else. This channel is never about real life. Even if you see me on Mastodon, I'm not on Mastodon myself. I'm on [url=https://hubzilla.org]Hubzilla[/url] which is neither a Mastodon instance nor a Mastodon fork. In fact, it's older and much more powerful than Mastodon. And it has always been connected to Mastodon. I regularly write posts with way more than 500 characters. If that disturbs you, block me now, but don't complain. I'm not on Mastodon, I don't have a character limit here. I rather give too many content warnings than too few. But I have absolutely no means of blanking out pictures for Mastodon users. I always describe my images, no matter how long it takes. My posts with image descriptions tend to be my longest. Don't go looking for my image descriptions in the alt-text; they're always in the post text which is always hidden behind a content warning due to being over 500 characters long. If you follow me, and I "follow" you back, I don't actually follow you and receive your posts. Unless you've got something to say that's interesting to me within the scope of this channel, or I know you from OpenSim, I'll most likely deny you the permission to send me your posts. I only "follow" you back because Hubzilla requires me to do that to allow you to follow me. But I do let you send me your comments and direct messages. If you boost a lot of uninteresting stuff, I'll block you boosts. My "birthday" isn't my actual birthday but my rezday. My first avatar has been around since that day. If you happen to know German, maybe my "homepage" is something for you, a blog which, much like this channel, is about OpenSim and generally virtual worlds. #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSim]OpenSim[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=OpenSimulator]OpenSimulator[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=VirtualWorlds]VirtualWorlds[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=Metaverse]Metaverse[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=SocialVR]SocialVR[/zrl] #[zrl=https://hub.netzgemeinde.eu/search?tag=fedi22]fedi22[/zrl]
Replied in thread
@Erik :heart_agender: @Roknrol What if I transcribe text within my image (for any definition of "text within my image") in a long image description in the post itself which I write in addition to the actual alt-text? And the alt-text explicitly mentions the long description at its end? E.g. "A more detailed description including explanations and text transcripts can be found in the post."

I often have so many bits of text to transcribe (in addition to describing where in the image they are) that I can't fit them all into the 1,500-character limit for alt-texts that Mastodon, Misskey and their respective forks impose on the whole Fediverse.

I'm not talking about screenshots from social media or something. I'm talking about renderings from 3-D virtual worlds where there may be 20, 30, 40 or more bits of text strewn across the scenery within the borders of the image. The rule says that all text within an image must be transcribed 100% verbatim, and it doesn't explicitly mention any exception, so I do have to transcribe them all. In addition, if they aren't in English, I must additionally translate them as literally as possible. There's no way I can fit all this plus a sufficiently detailed and accurate visual description into 1,500 characters.

But if you (or others) insist that all text within an image must be transcribed verbatim in the alt-text, and if you sanction image posts that transcribe the texts in the image elsewhere than in the alt-text, then I simply won't be able to post certain images in an appropriate way.

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta #ImageDescription #ImageDescriptions #ImageDescriptionMeta #CWImageDescriptionMeta #Transcript #Transcripts
hub.netzgemeinde.euNetzgemeinde/Hubzilla
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@Erik L. Midtsveen 🏳️‍⚧️🇳🇴 If you really want some criticism:

Alt-text really should not contain line breaks, nor should it contain the quotations marks on your keyboard. Neither are standard alt-text elements. And just because Mastodon renders them with no problems, doesn't mean everything does. Not even in the Fediverse.

As for line breaks: Some screen readers will take each new line for a whole new alt-text and therefore a whole new image. And they will read multi-line alt-texts as alt-texts of multiple images, e.g. starting each line with, "Graphic." This has been pointed out by Steve Faulkner in 2015.

As for quotation marks: For one, just like line breaks, they're actually completely useless for the actual target audience of alt-text, namely blind or visually-impaired people. Screen readers don't read out quotation marks. I mean, how should they?

But if a frontend doesn't render quotation marks properly, screen readers will read out gobbledygook where there's a quotation mark because they will see gobbledygook in the place of that quotation mark, because the frontend renders quotation marks as gobbledygook.

For example, there's Hubzilla which is what I'm posting from right now, so it's very much part of the Fediverse. Hubzilla renders quotation marks in alt-text as their HTML entities, namely &⁠quot;. A screen reader will read out every single quotation mark as, "And quot."

And then there are two descendants of Hubzilla made by Hubzilla's own creator, (streams) and Forte. The same quotation marks that you have on whatever keyboard you use, they use as alt-text delimiters. When the first quotation mark comes, they think it's the end of the alt-text, and they stop parsing and rendering the alt-text. For them, your alt-text ends right after, "Panel 1:"

#Long #LongPost #CWLong #CWLongPost #FediMeta #FediverseMeta #CWFediMeta #CWFediverseMeta #Hubzilla #Streams #(streams) #Forte #AltText #AltTextMeta #CWAltTextMeta
TPGi · Short note on coding alt text - TPGiThe other day, in relation to a github comment, I was asked by my friend Mike[tm]Smith “Can alt have line breaks in it or does that do weird things to...